Moderation in High Demand

Michael,

I don't think anyone need remind you that you are not in tune with most people, your comment avatar proclaims it proudly.

I do agree with you that only a few people are truly on the extreme ends with the majority of us being in the middle. Unfortunately for all of us, the vocal minorities garner all the attention.

I would not be so quick to put yourself in the middle SW. Your comments all over this board prove that you are conservative or like to think of yourself as so (at that moment). Maybe you are actually closer to Mitt Romney, whatever side seems to be "winning" at the moment is the side you will almost certainly take).

I do have question your first statement where you proclaim that I am not in tune with most people as my comment avatar proudly proclaims. My comment avatar says coexist. So you are saying that most people do not believe in coexisting. Sounds more like an extreme statement which would completely contradict your later statement that you are in the middle with most people.

To sum up your post: we are faced with a choice, once again, between a Socialist and Socialist Lite.

Either Obama or Romney will run the fiscal train off the tracks before they throttle back on spending.

Half the people in the US now work for a living while the other half vote for a living. The Feds have lured enough people with entitlements now, that spending cuts are not politically expedient.

Perhaps the Supremes will rightly vote against Obamacare since it violates our Constitution. And maybe the size of government will be scaled back.

One can only hope since voting will not accomplish a return to sanity.

Where is coexist Mike?

When I read your reply comments all I see is "Proud Liberal".

Michael,

Actually, my avatar exhorts people to coexist, your's proclaims your extremism and promotes division. I think you might want to pay a little more attention before you post.

To a leftist extremist like yourself, I naturally appear to be Conservative. Sam, a right wing extremist in my opinion, calls me a Liberal, I think that as far as bloggers around here go that puts me in the middle do you disagree?

No John, you really need to about what Socialism is. Continuing to pronounce something Socialist when you clearly don't have the first clue about what it is does not make it so. Nothing Obama has done in his first term even borders on an illusion of Socialism.

My apologies I had forgotten that when I switched my avatars you started using the Coexist avatar (odd since you clearly don't believe in coexisting from your statements). So let me amend my statement.

I do forget that on this site proudly proclaiming yourself something other than conservative (according to you) is just horrible.

Wallis, do you remember a couple of months when I asked you whether fracking could be linked to earthquakes and you said absolutely not, that there was no proof, or anything linking fracking to earthquakes?

Apparently since that time experts that apparently have more knowledge about fracking than you do have said that there is a direct link between fracking and earthquakes. Case in point, when fracking was stopped in north and central Arkansas the sudden swells of earthquakes stopped.

That goes right up there with your pronouncement that NASA had been permanently closed down by Obama because that's what your "sources" at NASA had told you. Last time I checked NASA is still open for business and operational.

You have quite the track record of making statements that you say are fact only for them to completely wrong and based on no truth or fact what-so-ever.

I do agree with you John on one point. I hope the severely partisan Supreme Court does strike down Obamacare. If they do the Republicans will lose most of their electoral bite.

Heck, after Obamacare is struck down maybe Obama can enact a non-Republican healthcare law where every American is covered no matter how much money they make or donate to the insurance lobby.

Michael,

I'm offended, what statements have I made that indicate an unwillingness to coexist? After all, I am not the one who proudly proclaims divisiveness as you do. I don't think I've ever made a derogatory comment about race, religion, disability, or orientation. Although I have made slightly off color jokes about Catholics to my Catholic friends so maybe I hate them. I think you are once again transferring your own hate and closed mind onto others.

It's not the proclaiming you are something other than conservative that I find fault with, it is the fact that you flaunt your divisiveness while chastising others for being divisive. Really my only complaint with your posts ever is your incessant hypocrisy that you refuse to acknowledge.

The irony of a closed minded person denouncing others for being closed minded never ceases to amuse me.

However, on to a new topic.

Do you have a problem with the Supreme Court being "supremely partisan"? If so, do you have a problem with the Liberal partisans as well or just the Conservative ones?

What do you mean by saying the Republicans will lose their electoral bite? Is this an admission that the public is unhappy with the ACA?

If Obama couldn't pass through a "Democratic" designed health care law with a supermajority in both houses, how do you think he could get one passed now? Interesting that you complain all the time that the ACA was "Republican" ideas, why couldn't the Democrats come up with thier own and get them passed by thier supermajority?

Michael,

Another thought:

"I do forget that on this site proudly proclaiming yourself something other than conservative (according to you) is just horrible."

Since I proudly proclaim that I don't consider myself conservative, does that make me a self-loather? The "wisdom" of Michael to ponder.

oops,

In the hope of being more accurate, I see that I misresponded to Michael's post, where I said "supremely" I meant to type "severely" sorry for any confusion.

Michael,

Cluster Earthquakes have happened a lot in the past. I told you it would pass. It passed. There are still a ton of injection wells in Arkansas and the rest of the United States.

Yes that is right Michael Fracking wasn't banned - it was the water injection wells that were shut in. Repeat it was water injection wells that were shut in not frac'ing.

However, there are thousands of water injection wells and they do not cause earthquakes either. Faults cause earthquakes.

Mike - You are exactly what is wrong with the left. You have no facts to back anything you say. You interchange things and then yell and accuse and point fingers and start fights.

Please, at the very least, educate yourself before you make a fool of yourself.

It is a lot more fun to laugh at you when you are at least prepared.

Wallis Marsh

I guess when you were wrong (co-exist) attacking is your way of medicating. Most people just say "oops".

Wallis

Actually SW I have never not once complained that Obamacare was a Republican law, I merely stated fact. But if you are so inclined to think that stating fact is actually complaining there isn't much I can do about it.

Conservatives, such as yourself SW, love pointing out the "supermajority" that was in at the time when Obamacare was being passed. What you ALWAYS leave out is the numbers surrounding that supermajority. Yes the Democrats held 60 seats in the Senate. But among those 60 were so-called blue dogs that were conservative in nature. One of those is from McCook. I believe you all know him, I worked for one of his organizations for a year, Ben Nelson. So, the supermajority was not so super. Also Democrats in Congress were not subject to the group think and lock stock marching that the Republican were. Where Republicans voted the way that their leaders wanted them to, Democrats tended to have their own mind.

The reason that most of the bill is full of Republican ideas (like the mandatory coverage) is because Republicans demanded that Obama and the Democrats work with them. So the they did in good faith that the Republicans would work with them. No surprise to anyone that the Republicans didn't.

Finally, no that is no admission that the public doesn't like Obamacare because the polling (as you probably know) doesn't support that point. The reason Republicans lose their electoral bite is because that is the main issue they are attacking Obama on. If they lose that they really (at this point) have nothing else to attack Obama on, except of course because for the birth certificate that the few morons out there believe is still fake.

Wallis,

Actually I did admit to my mistake you dimwit, maybe you should actually read posts instead of taking what you want to take out of it. Not saying I didn't call you out on your "facts" from the past (or as you say attacking) I did and will continue anytime you present yourself as an expert in anything and "attack" anyone who questions your own self delusional intelligence.

Michael,

Classic!

"Also Democrats in Congress were not subject to the group think and lock stock marching that the Republican were. Where Republicans voted the way that their leaders wanted them to, Democrats tended to have their own mind."

I always love this argument. Let me rephrase: "When people I disagree with disagree with an idea they are stupid and incapable of thinking for themselves. When people I agree with disagree with any given proposition they are brilliant independent thinkers." I think that is a fair translation.

So on your groupthink theory in ACA. How many Democratic Senators voted independently against the bill? What's wrong? Facts don't support your prejudice? Funny that every Democratic Senator in Congress independently thought that it would be a good idea to pass a "Republican" law and couldn't come up with an independent idea (according to your version of the "facts")but they naturally weren't following the instructions of party leaders. They are far too enlightened for something so base.

Do you know what partisan means?

Will you support the slur you directed at me earlier or is this another time where you will just clam up?

"Actually I did admit to my mistake you dimwit"

What have bloggers around here said about name calling and other ad hominem attacks? I really wish someone could remind me. ;)

So I don't know what socialism is, Michael?

As I understand, it's an economic system where the economy is run by the government, rather than the private sector.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism

Let us reflect:

GM is now Government Motors so the government is making cars (also at Ford and Chrysler). CHECK

ObamaCare will run the health care services (1/7th of our economy) unless the Supreme Court follows the Constitution. Already most of health care has been taken over by Medicare anyway. CHECK

Home financing is run by Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae. Private lenders have pulled back to loaning only 70% of a home purchase so it's just government lending for housing now. CHECK

Education K thru 12 and colleges are mostly run by the government. CHECK

Financing your college education is run by the Fed's Sallie Mae. CHECK

Farming is run by the Fed's Farm Service Agencies so your food production is run by the government. CHECK

If you lose your job and need help, the government provides assistance through unemployment benefits, food stamps, free medical care, free cell phones, free housing, and free college education. So charity work has all been taken over by the government. CHECK

The roads that used to be built by private turnpike companies are now built by the government. CHECK

Wind energy farms and solar energy farms are built with government subsidies so the government is producing energy (although very inefficiently). CHECK

The government defense department provides for the national defense. Unlike during the first century after the nation's beginning, when ordinary citizens were called up to fight the nation's wars, we now have a standing army run by the government. As we have seen, standing armies need practice wars so we don't miss any opportunities to give them exercises all over the globe. CHECK

Another common element of socialism is redistribution of wealth through graduated income taxes, and death taxes on estates. CHECK

Our retirement system is run by the government through compulsory Social Security. CHECK

Let us review:

The government runs retirement, education, health care, auto manufacture, home financing, charity, welfare, defense, roads, transportation, energy production, and food production (and much, much more).

I can see why you're happy about the choices we likely will have when voting for the next president. One installed socialized medicine at at state level, and the other at the national level. Where's the choice? As I said, it's Socialist or Socialist Lite. Either one advances the causes you love.

You can see no socialism, anywhere? You seek to enlighten us with a newspaper blog?

Nothing would delight you more than extension of this same socialism to every element of our lives.

There's an ancient Chinese curse, "May you live in interesting times!"

I say to you Michael, "May all your wishes come true, may you be forced to live with the results."

Like Ron Paul, I am a libertarian. We love freedom rather than the chains of government. Whether we are oppressed by a king or a president makes little difference.

Socialism is slavery to the state. Capitalism is freedom for the individual. The correct role of the government should be the preservation of individual freedom and rights, not the forced, equal poverty and slavery of socialist states.

I place my faith in God and the individual.

You place your faith in Government and the collective.

John,

You should try to stay abreast of reality:

"AMERICANS expect much from their president, but they do not think he should run car companies. Fortunately, Barack Obama agrees. This week the American government moved closer to getting rid of its stake in General Motors (GM) when the recently ex-bankrupt firm filed to offer its shares once more to the public (see article)."

http://www.economist.com/node/16846494

"GM is now Government Motors so the government is making cars (also at Ford and Chrysler)." UNCHECK

_________________________________________________

"By selecting "government takeover' as Lie of the Year, PolitiFact is not making a judgment on whether the health care law is good policy.

The phrase is simply not true.

Said Jonathan Oberlander, a professor of health policy at the University of North Carolina-Chapel Hill: "The label 'government takeover" has no basis in reality, but instead reflects a political dynamic where conservatives label any increase in government authority in health care as a 'takeover.'"

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2010/dec/16/lie-year-government-...

"ObamaCare will run the health care services (1/7th of our economy) unless the Supreme Court follows the Constitution. Already most of health care has been taken over by Medicare anyway." UNCHECK

__________________________________________________

But you are right ultimately...the US has always had elements of socialism incorporated into the system. It's why I find Sam so ridiculous. The highway/interstate systems (and all roads) are a giant messy network of big government projects paid for by taxation.

You are correct about education as well. A system of education that is paid for by taxation, free at the point of delivery, and compulsory to everyone is an idea that finds its origins in the philosophy of Thomas Jefferson.

The idea that the list you enumerated are bad, or not beneficial, is of course utterly absurd. IN my opinion, the one thing that this nation has done reasonably well in the last 80 or so years is to balance its penchant toward dog-eat-dog capitalism with sensible and ethical regulations.

Benevolus,

You should try to stay abreast of reality.

Do one these to make yourself more aware:

Try to start a needed business. Try to employ others. Try to change anything in this country. Try to even run an existing business. Try to improve a school. Try to improve a government office. Try to remove some red tape. Try to reduce the power and/or cost of government.

You will find roadblocks you never imagined.

But since you will never do any of those things, you will not become aware. I have done several of them so my awareness is much higher than yours.

Sorry, that's just the way it is. I am not knocking you, just pointing out your lack of experience. You seem like a great fellow.

If the government regulates everything you do in a business, like auto manufacture or health care, it's a takeover in reality. The government does not have to own a business to run it via regulatory fiat.

What cars you can make and how you can make them; how you compensate your workers, etc. What medical procedures you can perform (and be compensated for), who you can administer them to, what personel can administer them, how long a patient may remain in a hospital for a given illness, etc. And soon which patients are worth the trouble as decided by government-appointed committees under ObamaCare.

The increasing power and reach of government appears to be the natural direction of government, always and everywhere. The country is now run by bureaucrats and not by the voting public or those they elect.

Here is an excellent article about one of the unfortunate effects of all this government intervention:

http://dailyreckoning.com/despair-and-the-state/

"Fathom the Hypocrisy of a Government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen."

15 years ago the biggest obstacle I faced was being able to execute my business plan.

Now my biggest obstacle is political risk. Is the Government going to inhibit my ability to Hedge my oil price risk and allow risk management.

Is the Government going to interfere with my ability to complete oil wells after I have drilled them.

Is the Government going to interfere with my ability to dispose of produced water that I make along with my oil.

Is the Government going to tax me "punitively" because they do not like my industry.

I could add more but I won't.

The Government has become my biggest risk to success. And all that happened was a regime change.

Wallis

JohnGalt1968,

I didn't realize you had such ludditic (I'm not sure if that's a word) tendencies. You want us to go back to volunteer militia and eliminate the military? There is a difference between government regulation and government control of the means of production. There is a legitimate role for regulation, instead of dropping bombs you might be better served to focus on trying to find the regulation that is "a bridge too far" so to speak rather than wild eyed fanaticism that any involvement by the government is a Marxist Takeover.

Your wish for Michael can as easily be given to right wing extremists as for left. No regulation would be as bad as too much regulation in my opinion.

John,

You should try to stay abreast of reality:

"AMERICANS expect much from their president, but they do not think he should run car companies. Fortunately, Barack Obama agrees. This week the American government moved closer to getting rid of its stake in General Motors (GM) when the recently ex-bankrupt firm filed to offer its shares once more to the public (see article)."

http://www.economist.com/node/16846494

"GM is now Government Motors so the government is making cars (also at Ford and Chrysler)." UNCHECK

Until the next time THEY force THEMSELVES into BANKRUPTCY! "O's NO's! WE CAN'T LOSE DEM JOBS!" AKA the UAW's millions and millions they feed the Demorats.

Wallismarsh, I greatly appreciate your viewpoint. I think most businessmen feel the same way you do, particularly those in the oil business.

I guess it was just once again time for Michael to clam up when his misrepresentations caught up with him.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhxfArTAcfM

That is a good place for you all to start. Both right and left.

That gives you an extremely good idea of why we are were we are today. The other extremely important point is the privatization of prisons. This needs to be undone as quickly as possible.

Neither of these comments have anything to do with this particular blog entry, but are important nonetheless.