And Now for Something Completely Different

Arguing for Argument's Sake

Posted Monday, January 3, 2011, at 9:14 PM

It is typically easy to spot someone who does not have the facts on their side or is not solid in their convictions. It really has nothing to do with a person's intellect or even their political leaning or what they personally believe in. It is the way that they argue.

One of the first things that someone will do that does not have facts or a strong conviction is to repeat, if not verbatim, than pretty close, information they have seen on tv, heard on the radio, or read on the internet. It is pretty easy to spot the people that do this, because, when pressed they will deny that the verbiage they have used came from anywhere but themselves. There is no harm in repeating information you have heard or seen or read, as long as you give credit where it is due.

The other sign that the person you are are debating is actually only using their opinions rather than facts is just how quickly they get defensive about their point. Now, this should not be confused with defending one's point. The person that gets defensive does not answer back with facts to back up their point, they get personal. They will often throw insults, call names, question the other person's intelligence; but they will rarely if ever actually respond to the person that has challenged their information with something actually dealing with the original point. They will often claim that you are feeling something you are not and then try to exploit that to their gain.

They will also demand that someone disprove their point. They, for whatever reason, feel they do not have to ever prove their point, just the fact that they made the point makes it true.

When all else fails they will change tactics up completely and try to change the focus on what they were arguing to begin with. They accomplish this a couple of ways: they deny that they ever made the point to begin with, they will change their original point just enough to change the original point but also give them an edge in the debate, and finally they will completely change the topic and try to push the discussion to something else entirely.

They will also change your argument or just completely make up an argument for you and then attack you over it and make claims that what you are saying is not even true (never mind the fact that you never made the comment to begin with).

Last but not least when a person is faced with the idea that their opinion or belief is actually wrong they will often ignore that they have been proven wrong and continue to push their point.

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Thanks for the perfect example ocho, I know I can always count on you.

-- Posted by MichaelHendricks on Mon, Jan 3, 2011, at 10:55 PM
Let me elaborate on my previous post. Four posts, cinco, four, and you said absolutely nothing.

-- Posted by MichaelHendricks on Mon, Jan 3, 2011, at 10:56 PM
Good gravy! Thanks mike, This blog made me chortle. Priceless. I don't know what to say....I agree with you. People that do those sorts of things humors me.

-- Posted by Sir Didymus on Tue, Jan 4, 2011, at 12:01 AM
Good article Michael

I think this scenario is also being played out in our congress. Instead of actually addressing the implications of extending the tax cut for the wealthy based on facts, the argument was refocused to political talking points such as the Federal Government is too large, it amounts to a redistribution of wealth, etc. But the end results meant our country having to borrow funds to offset the loss of these tax revenues, further increasing our national debt.

I would like to submit a request for you, Sam, and Brian to work together as a team to coordinate efforts to present a specific issue that is of concern to all of us in the country - "For Profit" institutions of higher education. Since each of you have your own way of looking at issues it would somewhat represent a cross section of our community.

Corporations have figured out how to manipulate those trying to get an education, the same way they figured out how to sucker people into taking out house loans so they could sell the mortgage backed securities in the stock exchange - they didn't give a hoot about the citizens purchasing the houses and they don't give a hoot about the students trying to get an education. It is having adverse implications on our youth and is resulting in a huge loss of Federal Funds for accredited institutions of higher learning.

I have included a video link to Senator Tom Harkins recent testimony before the 111th congress on this issue, along with several backup documents for your review.

http://www.c-spanvideo.org/program/SenateSessionPart236&start=7310

http://harkin.senate.gov/documents/pdf/4c23515814dca.pdf

http://harkin.senate.gov/documents/pdf/d10948t.pdf

I hope you gentlemen will accept this challenge and provide us readers with your opinions and the facts influencing those opinions.

Best Regards

-- Posted by Geezer on Tue, Jan 4, 2011, at 9:03 AM
Okay let's try this cinco, and by the way kudos for making fun of people who have insomnia you are a wonderful human being, all these posts and not a single one had anything to do with the blog, just personal attacks and an (unhealthy in my opinion) fascination with my dogs.

-- Posted by MichaelHendricks on Tue, Jan 4, 2011, at 5:13 PM
Oh, ocho, all your attempts to paint me into some kind of weird image. They are quite hilarious.

"Just asked a simple question as to what the laws stated in Russellville, and you start to go nuclear"

Exactly where did I go nuclear? I must have missed my own post.

Insomnia is not a defense. I simply stated at one point that I have insomnia and therefor at times my posts and even blogs are written late at night or early in the morning (whichever you prefer) and for whatever reason you have taken that and decided to poke fun at me and deride me. It doesn't bother me, just kind of makes me wonder what kind of person makes fun of other people that have illnesses.

"Insomniacs are not a protected group!"

Okay I don't really know what your point is here.

"You have clearly stated that revenge is what you think we need to accomplish in Afghanistan"

Please, old wise one please show me where at any time that I clearly stated that revenge was the answer? I have said we needed to bring the mastermind of 9/11 to justice. I didn't realize that bringing a murderer to justice was revenge.

If you want to be specific ocho (I have a feeling you don't want to but here it goes) there have been 1448 casualties since the beginning of the War in Afghanistan. 2976 people died on 9/11 and the killer is still out there. War is hell. I hate war, I don't like the fact that our men and women are there dieing on a daily basis. But, they have a job to do, that is the unfortunate fact of military service.

It is interesting that for as long as you have been stuck on this issue of the war, you seem to have no opinion or care about what happened on 9/11. I'm not going to ask why, I'm not sure you would answer anyways, it's just interesting.

-- Posted by MichaelHendricks on Tue, Jan 4, 2011, at 6:45 PM
Holy mother of god... that was brutal, but I read all the comments and feel like I dropped an IQ or two. Here's a blog topic, "Internet and etiquette can they co-exisist?".

-- Posted by _banned_ on Tue, Jan 4, 2011, at 8:34 PM
ocho, I honestly don't have a clue what you are thinking.

-- Posted by MichaelHendricks on Tue, Jan 4, 2011, at 10:39 PM
mike must be off his government meds!

-- Posted by remington81 on Tue, Jan 4, 2011, at 11:50 PM
Oh goody, more insults!

-- Posted by MichaelHendricks on Wed, Jan 5, 2011, at 1:43 AM
Geezer I will be more than happy to take on your challenge.

-- Posted by MichaelHendricks on Wed, Jan 5, 2011, at 1:45 AM
Thanks Michael

Your efforts would be greatly appreciated.

-- Posted by Geezer on Wed, Jan 5, 2011, at 6:48 AM
Geezer - What would you like to hear? You provided good citations that I wouldn't argue with.

-- Posted by Brian Hoag on Wed, Jan 5, 2011, at 7:49 AM
Brian

I just wanted the community to be aware of the issue. In a lot of aspects it is similar to the housing boom and bust - students seeking funding for higher education need to understand the possible risks involved and the data that suggests fraudulent activities. Their education is only an investment to some corporations, the tool utilized to access the Federal Funding which provides the revenue for the corporation.

Thanks for replying

-- Posted by Geezer on Wed, Jan 5, 2011, at 8:49 AM

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