Repeal and Replace, Go For It

While you are correct that the idea of repaaling the law before the end of President Obama's term ends is unlikely. I will give you that point.

The rest of this blog should have had a little more research and prep done before posting.

First I would like to refer you to a web site www.usdebtclock.org. This is the actual numbers of how much debt this country and each and every citizen is currently in debt to government. As it stands right now the national debt and unfunded liabilities adds up to 120 trillion dollars. So, gee, lets add another 2.5 to 3 trillion dollars more onto that. Oh, by the way, according to the debt clock, each and every US citizen currnetly owes almost 350 thousand dollars and counting. Where is all of this money going to come from?

Second, you say that medicare, medicaide and social security haven't been all that bad. While it has been good for those that have been able to collect from them. The problem is, those entities are currently the majority of what is bankrupting this country. Again, I ask, where is all of this money going to come from?

Third, while I do not think that violence is the answer, I would like to point out which group of people that generally get violent when they don't get their own way. The liberals. Why is it seemingly OK for them to riot and cause harm is the name of "standing up for their rights" but the conservatives are just expected to bend over and take it? Just a little bit of a double standard there don't you think?

Finally, I have a problem seeing how this bill is going to make health care better for most people. We are going to be adding potentially 30 million people into this "free" health care system but not going to add one single doctor or nurse to take care of them. Also from some reports that I have heard, approximately one-third of current doctors say that they will quit their practices before 2014 when the majority of this bill will take effect. And if this bill is so wonderful, why did congress exempt themselves and their staffers from haveing to be included in what everyone else is being forced into? And, why wait until 2014 to start it? Why not make the bill take effect July 4, 2010? If it is so wonderful, what a better time than independence day to make more people dependent on the federal government?

It is hard enough already to get in to see a doctor when you need to. What do you think it will be like after you lose a third of the doctors that are currently practicing and then add all those extra people into the mix that want to see the doctors that are left also?

Anybody that has paid attention to the process and the backroom deals (bribes for votes), arm twisting, and other shady tactics that were involved in getting this bill passed along with the other points above tells anyone with common sense that this is a bad bill for the country. Even the politicians that passed it know it. Why else would they exclude themselves from it?

I think that health care needs to be fixed. But lets start with some common sense ideas like tort reform so that the doctors don't have to pay six figures a year in malpractice insurance to cover themselves from frivilous law suits. Maybe that would cut the cost of health care.

Let's make it so that people can purchase health insurance accross state lines. Add more compitition into the health insurance industry that isn't federally funded. Maybe insurance premiums would go down.

Those things would bring down the cost of health care. Which you cannot find in the bill, other that cutting 500 billion dollars in medicare, is there one thing that is designed to reduce the cost of health care in the law? I haven't found it. Also come to think about it, that is a really good move. Cutting money to the people that generally need the health care the most. Brilliant!!!

I won't even get into the parts of the law that are unconstitutional.

While this is a victory for the liberals now. Ultimately this country will wake up see that it was a huge step in the wrong direction and take the steps, whatever they may be, to change it.

God help us all.

First I would like you to give an example in American history where liberals could riot at will and were allowed to (and do not bring up Civil Rights because protesters were arrested) while conservatives had to bend over and take it. That is a blanket statement and a hard one to prove. Rioting is far different from actually threatening harm to a senator for the way they vote. I do not condone violence or rioting as a way to solve issues but I do condemn when we are told to our faces that the people to blame for violence or threats of violence being directed towards us is our fault.

Second, part of this bill is actually set-up to get more nurses and doctors into the field to help take care of people.

Why will you not get into the parts of the law that are unconstitutional? I have heard this argument quite a bit over the last few days and yet when they are prodded to give examples they have nothing.

Who are blaming for more most effective measures in this bill? The Democrats who had to build this from the floor up with little to no Republican help or the Republicans who when asked how they could improve the bill would just simply say no.

This is not a perfect bill it's a start. It will be improved upon. When social security was first passed the only people that could use it was white men.

You and the others keep saying that the country will eventually wake up, but what if, just what if the rest of the country is already and awake and moving forward and you are the ones with your eyes shut hoping for a return to the glory days? What if?

Mike,

Can someone explain why the Neo-Cons do not recognize that at least $11-TRILLION of the current federal debt was compiled by the Bush Family as the GOP Royal Family?

Bill Clinton was handed the greatest debt in the nation's history by more than 200%, a raging recession, with farm, business and home foreclosures, destroyed metals mining industry and totally shut down lumbering and timber milling.

Pres. Obama was handed the worst economic mess since Black Friday of 1929, two totally mismanaged wars, record foreclosures, a failed banking industry and the U.S. Auto Industry almost gone.

He has succeeded in turning around the Bush/Cheney deep, deep recession, moved our combat role out of Iraq and gotten the fight against Al Qaeda and the Taliban on track and much needed new equipment in the field.

Now with the Health Care Bill and a realistic Nuclear Reduction Treaty in the same week, he is ale to start working on his own agenda.

But the Neo-Cons are screaming.

DubYah Bush spent almost one third of his first two years in office on vacation, in Maine and in Texas.

Pres. Obama has taken about 30 days off in the past three years, plus rushing to his grandmother's hospital during the campaign and then to her funeral.

Lucky Guy!!

The Black Caucus in the House is angry because he is doing virtually nothing specifically for the black population.

The liberals have basically been told to wait their turn.

Where George Bush would not even speak to Democrats, President Obama has gone to extreme efforts to keep open channels to the Republicans.

Their response, NO, No, NO, No, No!!!

By the way, Mike, have you noticed any conservative voices praising Pres. Obama for shutting off the No Bid Sweetheart contrator contracts in Iraq, Kuwait, Bahrain, Qatar, Afganistan and Pakistan?

Of the $11-TRILLION national debt, Bush/Cheney left behind, it is becoming increasingly obvious that at least $1-TRILLION and probably $2-TRILLION or more was consumed with fraud and corruption from those No Bid, Sweetheart contracts.

And that is not even considering the Hurricane Katrina Relief fiasco, where another Billion or so may have disappeared within Halliburton and KBR.

As with those thousands of poison and unusable FEMA trailers.

The only thing that seems logical about this non-stop screaming of hatred about All Things Obama, is that the Republicans are well aware of all the corruption from their years in control and are seeking to divert attention away from GOP crimes and sins.

I don't see this new Health Care Initative as a 'victory for the liberals' at all. I see it as a victory for ALL Americans, regardless of their political affliations. We as a nation are finally taking the steps toward providing health care to everyone.

Mulitple other nations have done this successfully a long time ago, and the United States is finally taking some baby steps to catch up.

I could not have said it better myself McCookBaby55, kudos.

Mike,

With this week's developments:

> HCR Act final passage and signing;

> Nuclear disarmament treaty with Russia for 30% reduction in total warheads;

> The Iraqi ***** incumbent losing an open election to a secular Suni challenger, with a strong majority of purple-fingered ***** voters;

> MarJah and Human province secured in Afghanistan, with more than 30% of the Talib's opium production/50% of their net profits stopped.

/

ALL Americans must realize this administration has been forced to engage in serious "gator skinnin'" before draining the Bush/Cheney "Great Dismal Swamp" which has drowned a bunch of us.

Pres. Obama's first 17 months (Nov.- 08 thru March. 2010:

>> Organizing EFFECTIVE Task Forces and Advisory Bodies of the top professionals in every area of the military, banking, commerce, industry, labor, agriculture and primary industries [Incl; many GOP and conservative HEAVYWEIGHTS, who put the U.S. ahead of partisan politics];

> Focusing the military to end our combat role in Iraq;

> Totally reorganizing Afghan/Pak-istan operations to start winning with minimal casualties [MarJah-13 NATO/U.S./Afghan Army deaths- Rumsfeld's 50-man remote outposts, routinely lost 12-20 G.I.s in a single night attack];

> Clean up the Bush/Cheney TARP bail-out programs to stop the obscene "Boss Bonuses" and control how "our" money may be used;

=== SUCCESSFULLY help Chrysler and G.M.through turbo-charged bankruptcies, convincing Unions to take huge cuts in every area;

=== Convincing major bankers to clean up their acts or face dissolution, with strict executive compensation controls -- responsible for rapid repayments;

> Reorganizing FEMA to avoid a repeat of the post-Katrina fiasco;

>In the midst of the HCR fight, execute rapid and effective relief to Haiti and then to Chile;

> Pass HEALTH CARE REFORM before total national costs exceed 20% of our GNP to bankrupt the U.S. economy;

> Negotiate a mutual 30% reduction of nuclear arsenals with Russia, announced shortly after signing the HCR Act;

> Iraqi elections-Incumbent LOST!!-SAME WEEK!

>> Shift focus to JOBS, JOBS, JOBS, before signing the HCR Act.

>> Continue relief for battered homeowners facing foreclosure and keep people in their homes, rather than having entire communities of vacant homes (As in the Phoenix area, Detroit, Atlanta, Las Vegas, NV, Stockton/Tracy/Merced/Modesto/Madera,CA.]

/

This hated administration has achieved more toward rebuilding the economy in the first 14 months in office, than FDR did in the ten years after first taking office.

FDR had more than 5-MILLION men working in PWA and CCC operations on Dec. 5, 1941, with the depression still devastating the nation;

/

FDR did not start his post-college career working in a distressed laid-off worker community.

This president understood quick recovery REQUIRES attacking the problem at its cause, rather than directly to affect average folks' lives.

The Auto Makers are back in business and booming.

The major banks are repaying their TARP loans.

The GOP must decide if their total "HELL NO!!" stance includes voting against the Nuclear Reduction treaty.

/

Oh yes, this week's GOP PRIZE -- Oklahoma's Tom Coburn [who voted with Bush/Cheney every time to increase national debt to $11-TRILLION from 2000 to 2009], single-handedly blocking relief to the unemployed.

Wonder how many days FAT CAT COBURN will fast to "share the pain" with the folks he just shafted?

/

SOME GOOD NEWS -- Private investors nationwide are counseling and assisting seniors to help solve their own problems.

Where one person is facing loss of a big home- often four to six bedroom custom homes, in the wealthier suburbs [Often a widow, with SSI only, because "non-producing" retirement investments are yielding nothing, cannot sustain the overhead on the home.]

Local Senior Center staffs arrange meetings with other "like background" seniors, also left with SSI only incomes.

An example - five bedroom, four bath executive home in a suburb near Grosse Pointe, Michigan.

Loss of health insurance a year before the husband would become eligible for Medicare, required a $150,000 mortgage to pay cancer-treatment bills for him, plus funeral expenses.

Widow was left with $1100 monthly housing expense in her home of 25 years, $1350 SSI.

Current market appraisal -- $135,000 and the lender would not negotiate reducing [as the new April rules require].

Three ladies living in a trailer park, son's basement an sharing an 800 sq. ft. studio with two granddaughters); moved in for $400 monthly rent from their SSI checks.

A man, 54, took a garden bedroom with two meals daily for $600 monthly, and does all the heavy landscaping and handyman work. He brought his own entertainment center.

The ladies share the home's three big-screen TVs and sound system and their private bridge club.

They all now have ample spending money, their big bedrooms, full benefits from the house and grounds, share light gardening work, cooking and cleaning.

Just one solution put together by an 84-year-young investor, because it was the right thing to do.

Probably some Neo-Cons will never understand -- that investor could have stood back, let the home go into foreclosure within 90 days and bought it at auction for $25,000 -- giving him a 400% profit within 30 days.

That is happening every week across the country.

Wednesday the 24th, several dozen homes were auctioned in this region.

One 75-year-young friend's $40,000 offer to "the bank" was rejected. His wife attended that auction, while he went to another.

She bought the property at auction for $11,000.

He bid $25,000 and got a new four-bedroom, two-story home where the bank had rejected his offer for $100,000.

He was talking with his wife by cell phone during both auctions.

She had just told him no one was raising her $11,000 bid, when his "incoming" phone rang -- The bank's broker wanted to know if he wanted his original offer submitted for the auction.

"Not unless I want my wife to kill me!"

He was off to the side at "his auction" and had the bid at $23,000, when that bank's broker called, asking if he wanted his original offer for $100,000 entered.

He declined their generous offer.

Of course, when he walked up to complete the paperwork, that broker watched a $3,000 commission evaporate.

Those decrepit "Old Farts" made an extra $100,000 due to banker's greed.

They already had both properties committed to some deep pocket investors at a combined $200,000.

This is the real world created by DubYah and the Draft Dodgers.

Oh so many responses but not one answered the main question.

So I will type it slowly so that there is no misunderstanding.

Where.... is.... the.... money... going... to... come... from...to... pay... the... national... debt.... and... unfunded.... mandates?

Telling me who in the past is to blame doesn't answer the question. If you give someone your credit card and let them use it, does that mean that if they don't pay you back that you are not responsible for the bill?

Lets face it. This country is already bankrupt. Even if we took every dime from every "rich" man four times plus every dime from ever other American citizen twice, that still wouldn't be enough to pay back the 120 trillion that we owe.

On to other points:

As I said in my first response, I do not think that violence is the way to go about things either. But, I also can understand the frustration that people have felt. When the bill was in the senate, I wrote to and actually spoke with Senator Nelson and voiced my opinion about the bill. What ended up happening. He sold his vote for a provision given to him behind closed doors that in it self was unconstitutional and sonething that he had to know was never going to stand up to be in the final legislation. He totally sold out as did Congressman Stupak and many others that put party before the 70%+ of the American people that made it clear for a long time that they didn't want this bill. Frustrating Hell ya.

About the bill being set up for more doctors and nurses to be brought up, lets play a little common sense here.

You go to college for 8 years to become a doctor. In the process, you end up, lets say, 100 thousand dollars in debt to student loans before you even start practicing. You go to work seeing patients for what Medicare is currently paying for it patients care. By the way, in most cases, that is less than what it is going to cost you to treat them. Then lets remember that you have to put out six figures per year to pay for malpractice insurance so that you can cover yourself from law suits. Then you need to pay all of you staff (nurses, billing people, etc.). Oh, and lets not forget their health insurance plus your own. Before it is all over with you are paying the government for the privilage to practice medicine. How are you going to pay the rest of your bills? So, unless the incentives are huge, common sense tells me that becoming a doctor wouldn't be a very wise move at this point in time.

Who is to blame for the ineffective measures in the bill? Who knows. Because other than a few points designed to make the law seem like a good idea, none of it takes effect for four years. But the taxes will take effect immediately. Do you like paying for something for four years before you get anything out of the money you put into it. Who is to say that all of that tax money will still be there in four years?

The main unconstitutional factor in the bill is the "mandated" purchase of health insurance. Section 10 of the constitution states that the federal government cannot "mandate" the purchase of anything by a citizen or be fined. I know, everyone is by law supposed to have car insurance but there is a difference here. The auto insurance that you are supposed to be carrying for your car is to cover the other person in the event that you have an accident. There is also no restrictions on what state you can purchase your car insurance from. When it comes to health insurance, you are restricted to purchasing it from with in the state that you live in. Plus it is designed to cover you and your health costs not someone elses. The congress has tried to cover up the fine by calling it a tax. That is why the IRS will be in charge of collecting the "taxes" from the people that do not purchase health insurance. Actually, if they would have added in the Republican provision about being able to purchase health insurance accross state lines, it would have eliminated most of the law suits currently in federal court.

Oh this law is not a perfect law by any means but it is a step in some direction. The question is what direction? Marxism or Communism?

I'm sorry my friend but I like my freedom. If the government can tell me and my doctor what treatment I am allowed to recieve, what other freedom will they take from us next? How long until they walk into our houses and take our food that they "deem" to be unhealthy in the name of saving health care dollars? Tell you when to wake up, to exercise, to quit smoking, to quit drinking, what we watch on TV or listen to on the radio? That is how the progressives work. They take one little step, one little freedom at a time and before you know it you are a slave.

Yes, other countries have had this type of health care system for a long time. Lets look where they are now. Greece is bankrupt and the people are rioting because the government won't pay what it promised. Portugal is almost in the same boat. Let's not forget France and Spain. England is almost as bad. Canada has people dying while they are waiting for the government to allow treatment for cancer.

If our currnet health care system is so bad, why are people like the Canadian prime minister coming to the US to have treatment done?

If you walk into a clinic or emergency room today, will you or will you not get health care? Forget about the bills afterwards. Will they treat you for whatever ailes you? The answer: YES.

The same goes for a poor person that walks into the hospital. If treatment is needed, it is given. Whether the person is able to pay or not. So how can you say that people are denied health care? If you want to see people denied health care, go to Canada or England and watch the people on the "waiting lists", that would be treated right away in the US, sit and wait for the government to decide if there is enough money to pay for their treatment.

We have the best health care system in the entire world right here, right now but for some reason, some people have decided to scrap the whole thing entirely and start over becuase we need to be like everyone else in the world. It is only fair, right? I mean, why should we be able to live longer and have better lives than other people in Poland or Russia or Kenya? That's only fair, right?

Which leads me to a conclusion, Liberals think that it is OK to go to any means needed to make the world a fair place for everyone. Conservatives have figured out the obvious that nothing in life is fair and have learned to live with that fact. It is not our job in life to make sure everyone in this world is happy. That is a total impossibility and some people need to come to grips with it.

As I said before, God help us all. Because only He can save us now.

I am sorry but I do not find a section 10 in the Constitution to support your claim. The only section 10 that I find is regarding what states can and can not do towards other countries.

If you have a problem with the mandates that's something you have to take up with the Republicans. That was their brainchild that the Democrats included in an attempt to foster bipartisanship. As I have stated and has been stated by others. The bill is imperfect but it will be improved upon. The mandates are not set to even go into effect until 2014. There is ample opportunity to change that portion of it.

The money will come from taxes and cutting waste out of other programs, all of this has been announced before.

I understand that you do not believe violence is the answer but that is not what I asked you. I asked you to give me an example of when liberals rioted and caused harm and were given a pass and when conservative just had to bend over and take it (as you so eloquently put it).

We do not have the best health care system in the world and that is bore out by the facts. We are 14th in the world, that is hardly the best.

I can be like you when you spout off about the worst of the systems that are better than ours, but that does not represent fact or truth it is a portion on the full story only meant to prove your point. Even Sarah Palin, who has railed against the Canadian Health Care system, as a child would go with her family into Canada to get health care.

I understand you believe you know all there is about liberalism but you obviously do not know the first thing about liberalism and I would appreciate you not misrepresenting and lying about what liberals believe to make yourself feel better about your beliefs.

By the way the conservative Supreme Court ruled in a 2005 decision that the Constitution gave Congress nearly unlimited power to regulate the marketplace as part of its authority "to regulate commerce."

Well, obviously I have touched a nerve. I apologize if you are one of the few liberals that don't have those beliefs.

I only have a few comments about your last repsonses.

If our health care system is so bad, what country are you planning on going to to have major health problems taken care of? If you are staying here, maybe our system isn't as bad as you make it out to be?

I also take it that you enjoy paying higher taxes so that those who will not (notice I said will not) work to take care of themselves can enjoy more government handouts. If so, I will be glad to send the IRS man over to your house to collect my portion of those taxes because I don't have the money to pay them.

Oh, good point about Sarah Palin!!! "as a child" what was that 30 years ago? back when the Canadian health care system had money to pay for patient care? Awsome!

By the way, nearly unlimited is not totally unlimited. That and "to regulate commerce" doesn't mean forcing the customer to purchase a good. Regulating commerce is watching over the companies to make sure to protect the customer. Just a little bit of difference there.

By the way, when was the last time that the government cut fraud and waste from inside the governemt? I don't remember any.

I do not use our health system because I can not afford it mccook. My wife works full time but the only way she can get insurance through her job is to to take a 2 dollar cut in her pay. We barely make it through the month because of the rest of our bills. Fortunately our two boys are on ARKids which is a government run program otherwise they would not have insurance either. Is this the best system in the world you keep referring to? I do not support reform because Democrats want it mccook, it's personal for me.

You sure are standing on quite the pedestal there mccook assuming what my beliefs are or just making them up with blanket statements.

I believe that if you actually look at the new law you will see that it is not remotely close to complete take over of health care, it's not even close. The early stages which take effect this year and next are nothing more than oversight: Closing the donut holes that are causing some seniors from affording care under medicare, getting rid of the pre-existing conditions that cost people to get insurance, allowing children to stay on their parents insurance until they are 26. There's not takeover there.

I know you are having issues answering my question since you have still yet to give me one example where liberals can riot and cause harm at will but conservative have to bend over and take it (I bet the Tea Party protesters in Nevada would be surprised to hear that claim of yours) but I will answer your last question of the last time the government cut fraud and waste from the government was during the Clinton Administration that is one of the reasons that when Bush came into office he had one the largest surplus of any other president.

The next time you make blank statements about the way a person or a group of people believe you might want to try making that statement to someone who does not think for themselves.

By the way kudos on every single post you have made of using worst case scenarios in order to make people believe that this is as terrible as you imagine it to be. You seem to fit in perfectly with the doomsday people, not to mention your near perfect parroting of Republican and Fox News talking points.

By the way mccook since you keep bringing up the question of how this is going to be paid for I have a question for you. Did you raise these same questions when we went to war in two different countries yet continued to give tax cuts to the rich? It's the old catch-42 you say nothing about the spending of one President (R) but then you believe you can raise a stink about another President (D) without anyone noticing.

If you would reread my posts, I have never stood up for the spending from the Bush presidency. All of the politicians in DC are crooks and spending this country into oblivion.

I knew it would only be a few more posts before the name calling began. I have only stated my opinion. At least for now I am able to do so freely. Of course that may change in the near future.

I also have my problems. I am currently going through a bankrupcy because of health care costs from two back surgeries and a surgery on my hand. The eight months that I spent recovering, I sat at home with no income what so ever to help take care of my wife and children. My wife and I work hard for a living and to raise our children to be independent people. My children will not be in my house or even on my health care insurance when they are 26. We are all currently covered through the health insurance provided by my work but that will be ending soon becuase I am changing jobs and the new job doesn't offer insurance. Not once have I even entertained the thought of walking into a government office for a handout. So please don't make this into a "my story is worse than yours" discussion.

This country was founded by people that were independent and knew how to take care of themselves. If they didn't they died along the side of trail sonewhere. They did not ask or need government to do that for them like so many Americans do now. We need to get back to those principals. Not continue to make things worse by makeing more handouts available.

Well, lets see, how many riots have there been. I remember vividly the LA riots of 1992. That was right after the Rodney King verdict. Those rioters were portrayed as victims because the cops that beat Rodney King up got away with it. I remember some of them setting fire to places. I vividly remember one of them throwing a rock and crushing a white man's skull but they were the victims. They got screwed so they had a right to protest.

The Tea Party people go to DC. Hold a peaceful protest where no one was hurt or even arrested for any crime but yet they are the "hate mongers", "gun toting, sexist, homophobes" among other things. It was amazing to watch Speaker Pelosi get so scared and upset because of these peaceful protests because they were shouting such "hateful things" like "kill the bill".

It is obvious that we agree to disagree. Which one of us is right, only time will tell.

By the way Guillermo, I am nowhere close to being or felling hopeless. I am happy with my life because I go out amd make it what it is by myself. I design my own destiny. I don't expect others to do it for me and I certainly don't want government doing it for me either. The only other person that has any control over my life is the good Lord above and I KNOW I can trust him to lead me where I need to go. I can't trust our government the way it is right now. Can you?

If I am a Con-bot, so be it. I have been called many worse names in the past. Just know that when everything plays out and you find out that I was right, you can't say that you weren't warned.

God bless all of you

I just want to get this straight I ask for examples of when liberals were allowed to riot and cause harm and conservatives were made to bend over and take it and you give me the la riots where hundreds of arrests were made and the tea party protests where no arrests were made.

I remember watching the la riots and I do not remember one time where those people were made out to be victims. I believe the only fear that Pelosi had would have been at personal threats thrown at her if any were.

Wow I give you my personal story about why I support Health Care support and you in turn believe that I am trying to win some sort of feel more sorry for me contest? Seriously? All I was simply doing was giving a counterpoint to your argument that this is the best system in the world argument. I think it can be as soon as we loosen the stranglehold that the insurance industry has on us all.

My problem with the Tea Party protests is that a large portion of them seem to be protesting the reform based on misinformation and lies that they have fallen for. The fear does not come from the majority of the Tea Partiers that are doing it peacefully, it is coming from the ones that are calling black congressmen the N-word, gay congressmen the F-word, and going after Hispanic congressmen simply because of the way they are voting. The fear is coming from the people that are smashing windows of people who voted in support of the reform. The fear comes from the phone calls to supports of the reform threatening violence and death threats and wishing for horrible death. The fear comes from gas lines being cut at the behest of militia leader opposed to government take-over of health care even though he is taking government health care. The fear comes after all this has happened and then the Republican leadership comes out and while condemning it blames the people that all this happened to for it happening.

So while you want to minimize and apparently poke fun at legitimate fear the lawmakers are experiencing for simply voting on something and actually finger point at them for it I take is seriously. I do not blame all conservatives for what is going on, but do take exception when conservatives make fun of legitimate fear and then push the blame so as other conservatives will not look bad.

I may have jumped to a conclusion about your support or not you stood up for the spending ways of Bush but you have never invoked if you were against it either.

I think the funniest thing coming out of all of this vitriol over the health care bill is the government taking over control of student loans. Republicans are so desperate to keep the Tea Party crowd with them they are calling it a government take over of student loans. Of course the only problem is that student loans is already government ran, they are simply just cutting out the middle man that causes interest rates to skyrocket and forces many students to pay off their student loans well into their 40s.

So in summation, Republicans are bickering over the government take-over of a government program. Wow!

http://www.agoyandhisblog.com/2010/03/26/every-picture-tells-a-story-dont-it/

http://blog.heritage.org/2009/03/24/bush-deficit-vs-obama-deficit-in-pictures/

What's driving Obama's unprecedented massive deficits? Spending. Riedl details:

* President Bush expanded the federal budget by a historic $700 billion through 2008. President Obama would add another $1 trillion.

* President Bush began a string of expensive finan­cial bailouts. President Obama is accelerating that course.

* President Bush created a Medicare drug entitle­ment that will cost an estimated $800 billion in its first decade. President Obama has proposed a $634 billion down payment on a new govern­ment health care fund.

* President Bush increased federal education spending 58 percent faster than inflation. Presi­dent Obama would double it.

* President Bush became the first President to spend 3 percent of GDP on federal antipoverty programs. President Obama has already in­creased this spending by 20 percent.

* President Bush tilted the income tax burden more toward upper-income taxpayers. President Obama would continue that trend.

* President Bush presided over a $2.5 trillion increase in the public debt through 2008. Setting aside 2009 (for which Presidents Bush and Obama share responsibility for an additional $2.6 trillion in public debt), President Obama's budget would add $4.9 trillion in public debt from the beginning of 2010 through 2016.

>>>Overall, President Obama's budget would add twice as much debt as President Bush over the same number of years.

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Mike, I find it quite interesting that you and your wife both work, but manage to keep your kids on government healthcare. Even when I made $5.00 an hour (1990-1991), with FOUR children in my home and no spousal income, I paid for health insurance, deductibles and everything the insurance didn't cover. To date, with my wages gradually rising over the years, I have continued to manage to pay insurance and other costs without government help. I guess us "selfish Republicans" just don't get the mindset of taking from those with more in order to support our children.

"By the way, when was the last time that the government cut fraud and waste from inside the governemt? I don't remember any.-- Posted by mccookxjc on Sat, Mar 27, 2010, at 4:49 PM"

Hey Cookie,

It was called the Clinton Administration, 1992 to 2000.

Tens of thousands of redundant federal jobs cut, hundreds of thousands of pages of redundant rules and regulations cut -- THE FEDERAL BUDGET BALANCED and ONE-HALF TRILLION-PLUS paid down on the $4-TRILLION Poppa Bush federal debt.

One thing is for absolute certain --

This economy operating at near full steam will pay off the $12-TRILLION a lot faster than what DubYah and the Draft Dodgers created.

We were headed for 30% unemployment in January, 2009.

The situation is still brutal, but we are no longer losing 700,000 jobs monthly, in fact the losses are down under 50,000 monthly now.

By the way, some local Republican officials were just caught malingering with Stimulus Funds and allowing shoddy work at inflated prices by their pet contractors -- UNTIL THEY GOT CAUGHT.

Wasn't hard, the project started falling apart before they finished. DUH!!!

Don't worry, this naive old country boy is well aware some Democratic office holder will get caught doing the same thing.

When it comes to day to day activity, there ain't much real difference.

The GOP has Ensign and Sanford. The Democrats have Edwards.

But this is just like the GOP screaming about Pres. Obama's recess appointments approved before he flew to Afghanistan.

Bush put through about 160 recess appointments.

Clinton made about 140. (Sorry I forget the exact numbers, will have to refresh my memory.)

The GOP screamed about Clinton's recess list and they are screaming about Obama's list.

The Democrats screamed about DubYahs appointments.

President Bush 43 was a good President in only one factor. After the attacks of 9/11/2001, he rallied this country and actually united this country, even if it was for a short time, to not sit back and wait for the next attack to happen. The terrorists had awoken the sleeping giant. Not woke hin up but ****** him off. We, as a country, finally started standing up for ourselves in the world. Did he make all of the right and correct decisions. Did we go into the right country to keep another attack from happening again? I don't know. I wasn't involved in the decision making. I didn't have access to all of the intelegence, nor did anyone else at the time, that the government knew at the time. I had my suspicions also that he was only finishing a job that his father started years before. But that is in the past. We can not change it. So why keep rehashing it and argueing about who is to blame?

The fact is that we live in the present and that we, as a nation, can make or brake our future.

My opinion is, as I have stated, this health care bill will shatter it into such small pieces that there will be no going back. I believe that we will find out that this bill, even though it may help a lot of people (I will give you that), will take away a lot more of our freedom that what you think. Obama and this congress may be helping you with one thing but what are they going to take in return? Nothing in life is free.

My biggest fear is the ultimate downfall of our country as a whole. I believe that this administration is out to take over this country and change it into anoter Venezuela where the government controls everything.

Lets look at the Obama plan.

He took over auto indurstry. He said he didn't want to but he couldn't let his union buddies down.

He now has the health care industry. In 2014 the government will have the power to be able to tell you what treatment you will be able to have, if any, to keep you alive. What kind of diet you will have to keep. Even Pelosi said that: "this will be less about diabetes and more about diet". Sounds like they plan on invading kitchens next but we "had to pass the bill in order to see what is in it". Also, one point that comes to mind, when 2014 gets here and this new wonderful "free" health care system comes into effect, how likely will it be that people will start abusing the system? It won't cost them any more. Before we know it, people will be running to emergency rooms because they have a runny nose or they have a hangnail. Extreme? maybe. But there is that possibility isn't there?

The government already had control of the school systems and colleges. They have been teaching the liberal doctrines for years and rewriting our country's history to suit themselves. They have forced God out of our schools. They have been pushing evolution, sex education for children as young as 11 or 12, even handing out free condoms in the high schools. Making the children watch videos about how horrible our capitalistic system is. Even going so far as to make grade school students sing praises to Obama. What ever happened to reading, writing and arithmatic?

Next is amnesty for all of the illegal immagrants so that he can add 12 million plus more democratic party voters to keep him in office. This will also add them into our new "free" health care system coming in 2014. Think that that might make it a little harder to get into see a doctor?

After that will be "cap and trade" where in effect the government will take over all of the utility companies which in Obama's own words "will cause utility bills to nessecarrily skyrocket" all in the name of global warming. That will really help your pocketbook won't it?

There has been a lot of screaming from the left about the "fairness doctrine". What will that do? Nothing but limit free speech and basically keep debates like what we are haveing here from happening. Yes, you would probably love it because it would make it much harder for people like Rush, Hannity and Glenn Beck to have their opinion heard.

There is talk about "card check" legislation where the unions could basically come in and take over a business and be able to watch you vote on whether or not you agree to be unionized or not. At the cost of you job if you disagree of course.

By then, the US will be basically forced to declare bankruptcy. Then who knows what kind of chaos happens after that. Which gives Obama the opportunity to declare marshall law and basically declare himself as dictator.

You may call it fear mongering, pessimistic or any other term that you liberals can come up with. I don't care.

I am the proud son of a marine that served in WWII so that all of us can have these discussions freely. Are the people of Venezuela able to have a discussion like this? These are the steps that Cahvez took to get control of that country. Doesn't that scare you in the least?

One thing the my father has taught me is to look for and prepare for the worst. That way, when it happens, you have the best chance of making it through alive. Anything less than the worst is a possitive. Thank God and count your blessings.

Another thing that my faith has taught me is that there is evil in this world. Watch the news. Even the government controlled media (CNN, MSNBC, ABC, CBS, NBC and most of the newspapers) report about bad (evil) things happening every day. They usually don't tell you the whole truth about what is happening here in the US but if it is happening overseas, what would ever make you believe that it couldn't happen here. Most people act like 9/11 never happened. I just have a hard time understanding that.

I am sorry, but when Chavez and Castro (from Cuba), applaud the passage of this health care bill, it kind of sends up some red flags to me.

Also answer this question for me. Why is it that the only time that our president, that bows to every other foreign leader and apologizes to them for our existance, has said the word "victory" since he has become president is when he signed this bill into law? Who did they defeat? American people. Suspicious isn't it?

Oh, by the way Herndonhank, weren't the Republicans in control of congress the second half or more of Clinton's presidency? Maybe they had a little bit to do with the budget surplus and all of the other things that you listed Clinton as doing?

The best government is a government that is gridlocked and can do nothing but protect this country from outside invaders. That way they can't screw this country up any more than it already is. That is what the founders wanted when they wrote the Constitution.

mccookxjc,

You seem to forget, the Republicans were just as eager to obstruct any Clinton proposal as the present crowd.

Only "Slick Willy" tied Democratic and GOP programs together and moved enough votes to gain passage.

PLUS, the GOP was in control much of the time with Reagan and Poppa Bush, as the national debt more than doubled.

The GOP was in control the entire time DubYah and the Draft Dodgers were screwing things up and helped him more than double the debt.

The unanimously voted and passed [With that terrible non-vote manuever Nancy Pelosi was accused of planning to use] the Good Ol' Rich Boys' Tax Cuts, which was added 100% to the debt.

They approved Iraq Invasion spending every time, including the direct graft to Shotgun Cheney's Halliburton and KBR buddies.

"The best government is a government that is gridlocked and can do nothing but protect this country from outside invaders. That way they can't screw this country up any more than it already is. That is what the founders wanted when they wrote the Constitution.-- Posted by mccookxjc on Sun, Mar 28, 2010, at 10:19 PM"

THE FOUNDERS DID NOT project any political parties. Political parties did not exist at Philadelphia and NYC, when this "great experiment" started -- with every man realizing he was signing his own Death Warrant if "German George" laid Hessian Hands on his hide.

I do not pay taxes for a bunch of egotistic jerks to sit in D.C. luxury OBSTRUCTING.

OBSTRUCTING IS OBSTRUCTING.

IN EXACTLY THE SAME WAY SENATOR ENSIGN'S ADULTERY WITH A GOOD FRIEND'S SPOUSE IS STILL ADULTERY.

SENATORIAL FORNICATION IS STILL ADULTERY.

The Senate's job in particular, is to advise and consent, not to accuse, abuse and obstruct.

The House roles include creation of the budget.

The 100% partisan obstructionists left more than 150 key administration appointments denied, without allowing one to come to a vote or discussion.

Even after DubYah's proven record for appointing incompetent cronies to vital jobs [FEMA, TSA, Sec. of Defense, Surgeon General, Interior, Commerce, Agriculture, Attorney General, etc.], after eight years, 150 appointments had been rejected. A handful were blocked by single senators, but the vast majority were simply voted down.

The GOP will not allow President Obama's nominees to be considered.

An established "Labor Lawyer" with a 30-year record for unearthing Union Corruption and Abuse of members, coercion and blackmailing of employers and union officers accepting bribes from employers to betray union members -- is denied a hearing because he might be friendly to crooked Union Bosses.

He has been the crooked Union Bosses' most effective enemy for decades.

Stupid obstructionism by $10-Million per year Senators is not statesmanship.

For that kind of money, a reasonable amount of statesmanship and work seems appropriate.

"I am the proud son of a marine that served in WWII so that all of us can have these discussions freely.

MOST WWII MARINES charged Hell with half a canteen of water and a bayonet.

Your father did not pay the bill for you or your generation. That was your responsibility, just as my generation had its job and many "boomers" had Viet Nam.

"There is talk about "card check" legislation where the unions could basically come in and take over a business and be able to watch you vote on whether or not you agree to be unionized or not. At the cost of your job if you disagree of course."

THAT IS THE MOST OBSCENE DESCRIPTION OF CARD CHECK YET -- AND I'VE SEEN SOME BAD ONES.

I don't favor "card check" except where company work forces are so widely scattered, there is no other way. Mail-in ballots in many scattered company towns have a bad habit of disappearing in the U.S. Mail -- Remote Western States mining and lumbering towns for example.

The official "Election Results Couriers" in one Arizona mining company town, were stopped by badge toters and their "ballot boxes" taken -- to disappear.

After 24 hours, the couriers were allowed to return by the same road.

Only problem for that Sheriff and the mine company, another group and the real Ballot Boxes had already made it out in the bed of a dump truck.

Remember, John D. Rockefeller's Colorado Coal Company at Walsenburg-- Women and children slaughtered in tents with National Guard machine guns.

Harlan County, KY -- Company thugs used Thompsons and 12 guage Riot Guns on unarmed miners, wives and children.

Detroit -- City and state police, company "security" and assorted hired goons ambushed a legal picket line and slaughtered dozens of workers.

Port Chicago, CA -- Hundreds of black ammunition loaders died when forced at gun point to continue loading ships in high heat.

There's a bloody history justifying Labor Unions.

There is a real history of some union leaders being corrupt, murderous and greedy.

I had a friend run for the presidency of a county employee's union. After she lost with some seriously stuffed ballot boxes, she and every member of her campaign committee were forced out by management. Without attention from the media.

When four incumbent union officials and a half dozen county executives met with a fishing trip "accident," that made front pages.

Then, and only then did the county get new supervising board members, a new county manager and managers WITHOUT STICKY FINGERS.

Has anyone noticed, DubYah devoted nearly a third of his first two years to vacations. Flew in and out of Iraq within a couple of hours, in total secrecy until he was back to the U.S.

President Obama arrived in Kabul in secrecy, but an hour later, his presence was reported. And he stayed long enough to get some serious work done.

In his public meeting with Karzai, the President listed about a half dozen problem areas which MUST BE CLEARED by Karzai's government -- Chief among them, stopping corruption within his own family's members in the government.

This, within hours after the secular Sunni challenger won the Iraqi open election.

***** Iraqis voted for a Sunni in 2010 Iraq.

Meanwhile in MarJah, a squad of specially-trained FEMALE MARINES has spread out to work with women and children.

Male Marines are of no value in this fight for the hearts and minds, their female specialists get through the door.

Hundreds of years of European/Western nation's battling the Talibs and Pushtans, and someone thinks and operates outside the **** box.

A trained woman Marine with a basic medical kit, gentle hands, smile and desire to help walks through doors which have been closed to all western men for 1,000 years.

I wonder what stupid "Dictator" who spent two years as a child in a Muslim nation came up with that tactic, but is keeping quiet-- allowing the Marines to take credit for the innovation.

WITH THE U.S. ECONOMY OPERATING AT 85% TO 98% FULL CAPACITY, the entitlements are paid for and the debt can be erased.

It would have been great had DubYah had the brains to follow the Clinton program and have us debt free this year of 2010.

But Dubyhah always wanted to screw up a free lunch, and by doggies, he succeeded big time.

Leave this economy in the tank for another ten years and it could well be too late.

Get it back to near top capacity and we'll make it.

mccookxjc,

You seem to forget, the Republicans were just as eager to obstruct any Clinton proposal as the present crowd.

Only "Slick Willy" tied Democratic and GOP programs together and moved enough votes to gain passage.

PLUS, the GOP was in control much of the time with Reagan and Poppa Bush, as the national debt more than doubled.

The GOP was in control the entire time DubYah and the Draft Dodgers were screwing things up and helped him more than double the debt.

The unanimously voted and passed [With that terrible non-vote manuever Nancy Pelosi was accused of planning to use] the Good Ol' Rich Boys' Tax Cuts, which was added 100% to the debt.

They approved Iraq Invasion spending every time, including the direct graft to Shotgun Cheney's Halliburton and KBR buddies.

"The best government is a government that is gridlocked and can do nothing but protect this country from outside invaders. That way they can't screw this country up any more than it already is. That is what the founders wanted when they wrote the Constitution.-- Posted by mccookxjc on Sun, Mar 28, 2010, at 10:19 PM"

THE FOUNDERS DID NOT project any political parties. Political parties did not exist at Philadelphia and NYC, when this "great experiment" started -- with every man realizing he was signing his own Death Warrant if "German George" laid Hessian Hands on his hide.

I do not pay taxes for a bunch of egotistic jerks to sit in D.C. luxury OBSTRUCTING.

OBSTRUCTING IS OBSTRUCTING.

IN EXACTLY THE SAME WAY SENATOR ENSIGN'S ADULTERY WITH A GOOD FRIEND'S SPOUSE IS STILL ADULTERY.

SENATORIAL FORNICATION IS STILL ADULTERY.

The Senate's job in particular, is to advise and consent, not to accuse, abuse and obstruct.

The House roles include creation of the budget.

The 100% partisan obstructionists left more than 150 key administration appointments denied, without allowing one to come to a vote or discussion.

Even after DubYah's proven record for appointing incompetent cronies to vital jobs [FEMA, TSA, Sec. of Defense, Surgeon General, Interior, Commerce, Agriculture, Attorney General, etc.], after eight years, 150 appointments had been rejected. A handful were blocked by single senators, but the vast majority were simply voted down.

The GOP will not allow President Obama's nominees to be considered.

An established "Labor Lawyer" with a 30-year record for unearthing Union Corruption and Abuse of members, coercion and blackmailing of employers and union officers accepting bribes from employers to betray union members -- is denied a hearing because he might be friendly to crooked Union Bosses.

He has been the crooked Union Bosses' most effective enemy for decades.

Stupid obstructionism by $10-Million per year Senators is not statesmanship.

For that kind of money, a reasonable amount of statesmanship and work seems appropriate.

"I am the proud son of a marine that served in WWII so that all of us can have these discussions freely.

MOST WWII MARINES charged Hell with half a canteen of water and a bayonet.

Your father did not pay the bill for you or your generation. That was your responsibility, just as my generation had its job and many "boomers" had Viet Nam.

"There is talk about "card check" legislation where the unions could basically come in and take over a business and be able to watch you vote on whether or not you agree to be unionized or not. At the cost of your job if you disagree of course."

THAT IS THE MOST OBSCENE DESCRIPTION OF CARD CHECK YET -- AND I'VE SEEN SOME BAD ONES.

I don't favor "card check" except where company work forces are so widely scattered, there is no other way. Mail-in ballots in many scattered company towns have a bad habit of disappearing in the U.S. Mail -- Remote Western States mining and lumbering towns for example.

The official "Election Results Couriers" in one Arizona mining company town, were stopped by badge toters and their "ballot boxes" taken -- to disappear.

After 24 hours, the couriers were allowed to return by the same road.

Only problem for that Sheriff and the mine company, another group and the real Ballot Boxes had already made it out in the bed of a dump truck.

Remember, John D. Rockefeller's Colorado Coal Company at Walsenburg-- Women and children slaughtered in tents with National Guard machine guns.

Harlan County, KY -- Company thugs used Thompsons and 12 guage Riot Guns on unarmed miners, wives and children.

Detroit -- City and state police, company "security" and assorted hired goons ambushed a legal picket line and slaughtered dozens of workers.

Port Chicago, CA -- Hundreds of black ammunition loaders died when forced at gun point to continue loading ships in high heat.

There's a bloody history justifying Labor Unions.

There is a real history of some union leaders being corrupt, murderous and greedy.

I had a friend run for the presidency of a county employee's union. After she lost with some seriously stuffed ballot boxes, she and every member of her campaign committee were forced out by management. Without attention from the media.

When four incumbent union officials and a half dozen county executives met with a fishing trip "accident," that made front pages.

Then, and only then did the county get new supervising board members, a new county manager and managers WITHOUT STICKY FINGERS.

Has anyone noticed, DubYah devoted nearly a third of his first two years to vacations. Flew in and out of Iraq within a couple of hours, in total secrecy until he was back to the U.S.

President Obama arrived in Kabul in secrecy, but an hour later, his presence was reported. And he stayed long enough to get some serious work done.

In his public meeting with Karzai, the President listed about a half dozen problem areas which MUST BE CLEARED by Karzai's government -- Chief among them, stopping corruption within his own family's members in the government.

This, within hours after the secular Sunni challenger won the Iraqi open election.

***** Iraqis voted for a Sunni in 2010 Iraq.

Meanwhile in MarJah, a squad of specially-trained FEMALE MARINES has spread out to work with women and children.

Male Marines are of no value in this fight for the hearts and minds, inside the homes.

Their female specialists walk through the door.

Hundreds of years of European/Western nation's battling the Talibs and Pushtans, and someone thinks and operates outside the **** box.

A trained woman Marine with a basic medical kit, gentle hands, some chocolate, honest smile and desire to help walks through doors which have been closed to all western men for 1,000 years.

I wonder what stupid "Dictator" who spent two years as a child in a Muslim nation came up with that tactic, but is keeping quiet-- allowing the Marines to take credit for their innovation.

WITH THE U.S. ECONOMY OPERATING AT 85% TO 98% FULL CAPACITY, the entitlements can be paid for and DubYah's debt can be erased in 25 years.

It would have been great had DubYah had the brains to follow the Clinton program and have us debt free this year of 2010.

But Dubyah always wanted to screw up a free lunch, and by doggies, he succeeded big time.

Leave this economy in the tank for another ten years and it could well be too late.

Get it back to near top capacity and we'll make it.

Mike,

I'm sorry you can't afford health care, I thought teachers had good benefits, but perhaps not in Arkansas eh?

"What do these pathetic individuals do for a living that they have nothing better to do than threaten lawmakers?"

Maybe they are teachers or students or retired but they threaten politicians rather than troll blogs in an effort to stir up controversy and name call?

You mention the vitriol over the student loan debacle. Maybe this isn't an attempt for the government to gain more control over people, although that is what it looks like. Can you please explain to me what student loan programs has to do with heath care reform? That is one of my complaints, but I guess we do have to pass a bill so we can see what is in it.

And yes, I include myself in that joke before anyone gets all booty hurt.

Jackie,

With more money going directly to the government as middleman rather than private banks. Those government workers will have much more money to buy heath bars on their numerous breaks throughout the day, so they can enjoy the toffee delight when they should be working. This will lead Hershey's sales and stocks to soar while Mars' suffers. Leading ultimately to the Democrats true goal of a government takeover of Mars through another bailout and greater government intervention in the chocolate market.

Breaking News! This just in! Conservatives have found a new controversy surrounding President Obama:

He put his legs on his desk in the Oval Office!!!

Seriously are you guys even trying anymore? This is just plain ridiculous.

Actually SWNebr, great misrepresentation by the way. The government has cut out the middle man so that students can pay there loans back faster. As it was these middle men would tack on outrageous fees year after year so that even if former students were making their payments they were not getting any closer to paying off their loans.

First MrsSmith and now you SWNebr? She was either accusing me of lying or being a bad parent, and you seem to believe that I am lying. Do you two have nothing better to do than to look down the bottom of your nose at people that are less fortunate than you. But to answer your question as a teacher I had good insurance on myself, but at the end of my contract with not open positions available I found myself without a job and only able to work part time. So go ahead call my lazy or whatever derogatory comment you can come up it's what you two do best.

Mike,

Actually I look down the top of my nose at people, my eyes being set above said nose on my face.

All kidding aside, I'm sorry you lost your job, I don't think I've ever called anyone here lazy nor too many derogatory names but I may be misremembering. How do you infer that I was saying you were lying? I think maybe you are too touchy on this subject. As far as my information was that you were a teacher, teachers generally get less pay in exchange for better benefits I thought it stood to reason you as a teacher would have good benefits. I had no way of knowing you had not been kept on as a full time teacher, now if I truly were as derogatory as you claim I could make all sorts of jokes about the quality of teachers who don't achieve tenure but that would be beyond the pale.

On the subject of being beyond the pale, ironic isn't it that you accuse me of questioning your veracity in the same post as you clearly calling me a liar. Although to be fair the whole bit about Hershey's and Mars was clearly a fabrication of my own, I meant it as satire not to be taken as truth, so indeed I did misrepresent. If that is to what you refer I apologize for questioning your hypocrisy.

However, I digest.

My question remains what does student loan program have to do with health care reform? It's not that I don't understand the argument behind the power grab, I just don't see the logical connection.

Mike,

You make me think of another point with your whine. What makes you think I am more "fortunate" than you. You know nothing of my life and my struggles. I make my own fortune to the best of my abilities and try to make do with what I can. Are you a historically discriminated against minority? Am I not? You have no way of knowing. What advantage in fortune do you think I have over you? Do you think I haven't worked hard and earned what little I do have? Or was it handed to me because I was fortunate enough to have been born into a specific family or place? In a nutshell I think you have summed up one aspect of how many in America see "Liberals" whining because other have it better than you do so you want to level it out. Don't get me wrong I don't have any more sypathy for "Conservatives" who falsely proclaim to care for others when only being worried about themselves. But seriously to which historically disadvantaged group do you belong?

Sorry for my rant but that type of whining bothers me a lot.

Mike,

In regards to your post earlier about the student loan program just taking out the middle man and how they're already government run...

Actually, banks were able to issue student loans independently of the government and many students did take out these loans. Now there are NO private student loans. I'm not talking about the loans private companies administered for the government, I'm talking about 100% private market loans that banks were issuing before this takeover of the student loan industry.

Of course, since businesses were administering this program for the government they are called "the middle man". Banks were not rolling in the dough by doing this for the government either. Just goes to show, no good deed goes unpunished.

Wait a minute, the insurance companies are going to be administering a large part of this new health care bill for the government... Looks like it won't be long before Democrats are wanting a 100% government run health care system (again) and their reason... "Well, we're just eliminating the middle man. It's no big deal". This is why we didn't fall for the public "option" when it was pitched and it's why we're not falling for this bill because they when they finally make their move, they don't even have the guts to admit what they're doing.

Repeal and replace, we won't only go for it... we'll get it.

Be careful Gouda,

A couple of weeks ago I wasn't a con-bot either but after still disagreeing with "Liberal" interpretations I have apparently now become one, I'm sure you are next or perhaps McCook1 will be the next to fall.

Senior,

When Mike asked me why I look down my nose at people less fortunate than myself in response to my statement toward his remark I feel there is a pretty clear implication that I must be more fortunate than he in order to look down my nose. Do you disagree that is what he meant? If we ask any unbiased person to view that I feel they would agree with my interpretation. You ask a question then proceed criticizing me without giving me the chance to answer your question.

Now I'm sure my answering your question will do little good since I am merely a marginalized, inhuman sneering hero, or something like that, but I do try to answer if I can.

I imagine my lack of class does shine brightly especially to those who do little but name call and mock but don't address the substance of comments. So since you are Mike's self-appointed defender can you explain what student loans have to do with health care?

So if Mike didn't mean to imply that I am more fortunate than he and I got nailed on an arguable detail, my overall point about "Liberals" remains.

Senior,

Oh no I am a victim all the way. Because I don't agree with your positions I have no other option than to be filled with hatred, angst, jealousy and filled to the brim with white, middle-aged feelings of victimhood. I honestly don't see how the following statement can be anything but an "attack".

"Your lack of any class shone brightly my boy, fine job. Your grandfatherly sneer set to take a personal example Mike gave and proclaim it "whining" with the pomp of a hero."

Do you feel otherwise? I don't see how anyone could confuse that with constructive criticism.

As I am writing I realized you could mean Gouda's statement about Mike being the "attack" if that is what you mean then no I don't really consider it an attack as I thought I made painfully obvious I consider it whining with an attempt to portray a victim stance.

I'm glad you feel that it has NOTHING to do with health care. Do you then feel it should be included in a health care bill? These are the complaints that I have with how government does things. Even after all the lofty talk of transparency we still get the muck.

Senior,

I believe you willfully misunderstand. I am not ashamed of being titled a Con-bot for I don't consider myself one. Why should I be ashamed by what you think? I disagree with the name calling because it is in my nature to treat people with respect even if I disagree with them. Apparently is not in yours.

One question on here was basically where would anyone go for better health care than here in the U.S.

There are several locatins now in Latin America, S.E. Asia, India, etc.where U.S.-trained doctors, including specialists and nurses perform major surgery with equal or better results than here.

Major reason -- The patient gets the surgery, Five Starr resort level lifestyle, even in the recovery facilities, and restful time to recuperate (up to six months) for a fraction of the cost here in the good ol' U.S. of A.

$45,000 for the medical procedures, with six days in hospital recovery in a top teaching hospital.,,,PLUS $35,000 for three months in a nursing home.

$11,000 for the same surgery, with 90 days in a modern beach house where the surgeons who operated live to each side.

The difference -- none rally-- except the patient lives by going overseas,because she had $15,000 for the medical and recovery, airfare and two-week luxury cruise home.

Or she could have stayed home and died, because being uninsured -- the U.S. hospital declined to proceed unless she came up with $40,000 up front.

She went to S.E.Asia from sheer desperation.

Those who learn the advantage are mostly going from choice. Guess what, for the insured, those who are diagnosed here, are able toget their insurance companies to pay the entire bill overseas --no 20% co-pay.

Guillermo,

I agree that the student loan issue could be a good thing, we'll have to see how it works out. My problem is the "ends justify the means" attitude that politicians and their followers seem to exhibit. If you say you are going to reform health care, then reform health care. Trying to tie allowing people to stay on their parents insurance until 26 because that would mean they are "college age" seems tenuous at best. College students could already remain on insurance until 24 and if you can't finish a 4 year degree in 6 years maybe one should re-evaluate your methods or goals. This really seems to me like just another way to gather more power for the federal government rather than a way to really improve educational funding. After all none of the health care reform seems likely to reduce any costs, which is what people almost universally said they supported, nor will expanding the government to process loans rather than private firms do anything to address the skyrocketing costs of attending college.

Guillermo,

While I agree that Americans who are without health care due to some sort of oppressive practices could be classified a vulnerable population, how can you argue that student's with large loan debts are in the same class? No one forced students to attend college, nor were they forced to accept loans. What argument do you make that people who have chosen not to attend college or those who have supported themselves should be required to subsidize those who do attend, even more so than we already do? Changing the way these loans are processed will do nothing to address the real issue facing students, rising tuition and fees.

I do think that since the government is in charge of the Student loan program they should demand that students that receive the loans actually try in school. I think that mandatory drug tests and harsh penalties for flunkies should be in store. Since the taxpayers are footing the bill we should only expect the students make an effort. Most kids that flunk out don't go to class and quit trying early on in the semester. The US taxpayer shouldn't subsidize drinking and pot smoking.

I am simply for government putting strings on student loans. Is that such a bad thing? Government putting strings? College students need to be policed so they will do the right thing. Are you implying that smoking pot is good?

Also jackie I am talking the student that goes to college for a semester or two - gets government aid (Pell grants and loans) parties - flunks out - then gets a low paying job (because they are a college flunkout) then can't pay back their loan.

I am only for the government making sure that college students do no break the laws as a provision for the aid.

I followed the rules - I am assuming that you followed the rules - why should we not make everyone else follow the rules?

So your contention is that only plutocrats and the extremely wealthy feel that a person or government should only buy what they can afford? As I said earlier my problem is that the student loan crap just like health reform crap does nothing to actually reduce the cost of the education or the medical treatment. So naturally the good "Liberal" idea is to spend even MORE money we don't have on projects so people who can't afford an item have the ability to buy it because they aren't paying for it. Haven't we seen where putting everything on credit and hoping we'll have more money in the future gets us?

I think you are wrong the problem isn't that the private lenders try to make a profit. I think the problem is the inaccessiblity of affordable education.

I have another couple of plutocratic thoughts:

If you can't afford a $250,000 dollar house don't buy one. If you can't afford a Mercedes, don't drive one. Do you even see the stupidity inherent in your comment? How foreign is the concept of working for something and making do with what you have to Liberals?

Plutocrat pfffft don't make me laugh who am I the Rockefeller of SW. Nebraska where everyone is rich and has had everything handed to them?

So much for putting words in others' mouths. How about this one:

The government should hand out money to anyone regardless of how bad the business idea is because that person really thinks it is a good idea. Then if the business fails they don't have to pay back all of the loan or face any negative consequences because they gave it a really good try.

Please enlighten us how my believing that people should live within thier means makes me a plutocrat, and how the opposite is such a better idea?

Guillermo,

I don't know if you are trying to be funny or have no ability to understand that anyone else can have a different perspective than you.

What part of my wanting the education to be accessible and affordable did you miss? How does increasing student loan debt and continual increase in the cost of education make information accessible?

I think because you would like to be in the ivory tower of EXPENSIVE information you may have difficulty seeing my point.

I never once said that there shouldn't be loans, nor that people shouldn't have access to information. Although if I had my way there wouldn't need to be loans because education would be affordable. Instead of the COST of education continuing to be unattainable forcing people to continue to take loans, although this time from the government as you seem to be advocating I would rather work to reduce the dependence on loans of any sort.

On a lighter note, I think maybe you should refresh your history lessons if you think that America could ever revert to a series of fiefdoms, that never happened here therefore could never come again.

I had a thought. Public school is free (not counting those that pay property tax). We should just make college free. Than everyone can go. I can't believe I am the first to have thought of that. Look at all the money we could save if we made all college's federal. We could cut all the regents and presidents of the University's and save a lot of money.

We could add a college tax to those that make over $45,000 coming out of college to pay for it.

I had another idea. We could make all food free at the grocery store. We all have to eat. We could tax everyone who makes over $30,000 to pay for it. Since college, food and healthcare are free everyone will have enough money to pay for taxes.

We should also stop paying car insurance. We could add an insurance fee when we all buy gas. That way everyone who buys gas is covered.

We could also make electricity free. We could tax everyone who has a job to pay for it.

Now we have free health care, free car insurance, free utilities, free food and free college.

We need to also make gasoline free. We should have the governement take over the oil industry. The government could buy imported oil and run the refineries. We could make all drivers pay a tax to pay for it.

Now we have free gasoline. The only thing we have to pay is taxes but look at how much money we have saved not paying the double salaries and the like.

We can also lower unemployment by having the government hire everyone that wants to work. We could save money by having the government issue credits instead of money. Because everything will be free why would we need money? It can be like Star Trek. We all pay with credits.

Boy - this running the world really is easy.

I haven't figured how to deal with other countries but I am sure there is a very simple answer that I have not thought of yet.

What is a con-bots?

El Senor Decibel Grande Satarical:

Woe unto us.

All in one day.

FIRST -- a Republican National Committee executive approves $2,000 for Young Republican leaders to "party hardy" -- NOT at a strip joint, but a "high-class, LESBIAN sado-masochistic tableau art club."

SECOND -- A conservative think tank completes an item by item "blind" comparison of the actual sections of CONSERVATIVE MITT ROMNEY's wildly-popular with conservatives MASS. HEALTH PLAN -- and SOCIALISTS' PELOSI/REID/OBAMA and their Democratic conspirators' new "OBAMACARE" Health Care Act.

Woe unto us!!!! The section-by-section, page-by-page, line-by-line "Blind comparison" concluded:

MITT ROMNEY'S Massachusetts Health Plan is measurably more SOCIALISTIC than OBAMACARE.

Woe be unto the nation's deluded liberals.

They have been caught defending the wrong Health Care Reform legislation.

Liberals should have been protecting the Conservative's SOCIALISTIC Health Plan from the national conservative movement.

Even worse, all those Tea Party tea bags were wasted 350 miles to the south from where they were needed, right there in Boston Harbor!

Plus, they were several years too late.

They could have saved the expense and joined the Young Republicans at the Beverly Hills whip-swinging, leather un-wrapped Lesbian, sado-machistic, artistically tableaued nude exposition."

And to think, twice as many of those sneaky Young Democrats had more fun, even got a 1/2 lb. ground sirloin burger and healthy (O.K. VERY Healthy) heterosexual young females serving their food and beverage; All for $400 out of their own pockets.

Those wasteful Liberal Democrats just don't understand conservative thinking or sexual preferences.

Wonder if the Young Repubs invited Mark Foley or Larry Graham?

Maybe Sam can organize a nice, dignified Tea Sippin' crowd to ride in the back of his big rig to Boston and conduct a 2010 Boston Harbor Tea Party from the decks of "Old Ironsides."

El Senor, let's give three big BronX Raspberry Cheers for strait-laced, Modern Conservative Republican Values.

Oh darn, I forgot, that "Artistic Lesbian, Sado-Machistic ART venue" has sound proof walls and roof -- they can't her us, especially with those "simulated" whip strokes against all that leather.

Woe be unto us. We can't even cheer them on in their cultural pursuits.

Does this possibly mean Conservative gearjammers can't lunch at HOOTERS from now on.

To stay in tune with their political leaders, they will have to find a Lesbian, Sado-Machistic artistic theatres which serves $20 beer and $40 Boiler Makers?

Of course, we can emulate those uber-conservative Republican National Committee staffers who charge "office supplies" at the Liquor Stores and Wine Shops.

Those darn Liberals can't even get that simple job done properly. They keep on splitting the cost among those present and buy a keg and a mixed case of snacks.

Not to worry, Senor Decibel Grande,

There are plenty more conservative conference to lead the way to artistic lesbian posterior whipping exhibitions.

Gawd, wimpy Lib Obama kicks Karzai's rump in public, directs opening the East Coast to oil and gas drilling and discovers the conservatives' Health Plan in operation for several years is more Socialistic then the bill he just signed.

Life just natcherly ain't fair.

Guys. Let's stop fighting. Let's adopt my new policy of making everything free. I also thought that since we made almost everything free we should also make housing and cars free. We could use credits. This way we can all live in 6500 sq ft 6 bedroom houses on an acre with a swimming pool.

I HAVE SOLVED THE PROBLEMS!!!!!!!!!

We need to pool all the resources of the United States. We all work for the government and the government provides for our every whim.

We test the citizens to determine what job suits them best. Then we train them to perform that job. We will need to develop a system that punishes those that do not perform their jobs but that will be easy enough. Maybe have them winter in Montana or the North Slope of Alaska.

Problem's solved. We all live in the same house, drive the same cars, have the same health care, have enough food. We all work for the common good of each other.

Amazing such a simple concept has not taken off and prospered before.

I ran this idea by my father. He had a concern as to the fairness of some of the concepts. As an example, some folks will have more difficult jobs than others. If we give everybody the same benefits he thinks that the folks with harder jobs may think this system is unfair. I told him that is something a Republican would say.

He needs to move into the 21st century. Free candy, diet coke, health care, cars, gasoline, utilities, sports tickets and homes for all.

Since I am a Petroleum Engineer, I suppose I will work in energy procurement. What jobs do you other people think you will have?

My father thinks he should be a tv critic.

Guillermo - Your writing style is hard for me to follow. You are just to smart for me to understand.

I am advocating real change. I am advocating a better lifestyle for most Americans.

I hope the new oil drilling off Virginia gets us off of foreign oil. I have only seen reports that indicate there is Natural Gas. I guess I need to get in line and do as I am told. If we are drilling for oil, than oil it is comrade.

I am just proposing that we all coast now.

I am looking at installing a coal to liquids plant and capturing the CO2 to reinject in an oil field. Anyone know anything about that?

I know quite a bit but am looking at doing feaseability studies, etc.

I am using the Fischer Tropsh model.

Sincerely looking for some help if anyone is a Chem Engineer.

Wallis Marsh

www.extex.net

Wallis,

If you do live in Houston, you have to be the most naive Texan about oil and gas in history.

It will require at least two years to prepare legalities and sell the first off-shore lease blocks.

After that the lessees will require five to possibly twenty years to begin exploration and development.

Part of that is off shore seismology studies.

A larger part is finding an offshore drilling platform.

The shallower the production zone, the fewer wells can be sunk from a singled platform.

Therefore a single field can require far more platforms if the production zone is shallow.

Last year, one company had control of 25% of all existing and planned deep water drilling platforms.

Many of the major deepwater rigs are contracted for the next 20 years, some are under conract for considerably longer than a normal life expectancy.

Wallis,

RE: Your interest in the pseudo Utopian, all working for the common good and receiving their needs in return.

It was tried in Boonesboro, worked for about ten years.

Was tried in various early agrarian groups around the early New England colonies.

Was common in the Hippy Era communes coast to coast, Canada to Mexico.

Hasn't worked worth a hoot anywhere for long.

Inevitably, someone decides to contribute by fishing, or writing poetry, or producing offspring and nothing else.

Someone else decided the place needs a self-appointed supervisor.

Cheesehead seems concerned you don't read the blogs anymore, just make your entries.

As for chemical engineers -- Try the Orange and Beaumont, TX areas if there aren't any in Houston. Should be plenty in City of Industry, CA. Silly Valley and the S.F. Bay Area.

Can't imagine why anyone in Houston would be looking for a CHEM-Engineer in Red Willow County, or even Frontier, Hitchcock or Imperial.

Last I heard the supply of technical people in Stockville, Benkelman, Oberlin, Cambridge and even Cozad is somewhat limited -- unless you are looking for combine repairmen.

HerndonHank - I never underestimate who is on the other end of the computer. Except for myself (Petroleum Engineer), Justin and Mike Jr (Sub teacher) I have no idea what the rest of you guys do. I thought that maybe I might be surprised.

Wallis,

Good idea not to try underestimating who is on the other end of the Internet --

But when several of these good ol' boys and gals prove themselves equipped with permanently closed minds -- Week after week, month after month, and year after year -- Overestimating their contribution gets less and less difficult.

I've known conservatives who preached their conservative politics endlessly, as some on here seem predestined to pontificate.

Never met one who was aggressively helpful to others and generous with his help and finances.

NOT ONE.

Knew one ol' fellow who always dressed in striped carpenter's overalls, with the carpenter's billed cap on his grey skull.

Without question, the wealthiest man in about half of a large wealthy county.

Never once heard him announce his political philosophy .

Collecting the office mail from the P.O. Box one Monday about 9:00 a.m., he handed me a slip of paper and asked me to give that to the banker next door to my place. Stuck it in my pocket and about 9:40 went by the coffee shop to find the banker preparing a tray for his staff.

Remembered that piece of paper, took it out of my pocket and handed it over. He took one look and smiled -- asking if I'd looked at it, turning it around.

Just a $10,000 check made out to "Fire Victim's Trust account," obviously for a family which had burned out the previous Friday. I remembered his command, "Tell 'im to forget where it came from."

That crusty ol' multi-millionaire and his wife provided about 80% of the financial support for their Community Methodist Church. Plus having built the parsonage.

They also were by far the biggest donors to a Catholic Church building fund.

When a farmer ran for the county board, promoting some seriously progressive ideas, that couple hunted up his campaign manager and each contributed the individual limit. Plus there were checks for maximum contributions from two complete younger generations of their family.

Two people who earned their wealth within one lifetime -- always ready to give to their communities and help those having tough times.

Conservative in business practices--absolutely!!

Moderate in politics -- absolutely!!

Open minded, trusting good people--absolutely!!

Egg-headed, over educated Code Pink liberals!!!

Not exactly, neither was able to finish grade school before WWI.

They just saw to it that qualified graduates of their country high school were able to attend any college they could qualify for.

No scholarship funds, no foundation -- just checks and cash. The old fashioned way.

The only doctor in their community today was financed through pre-med, medical school, internship and residency by them and some friends.

True conservatives without question.

They just never preached it.

BACKASSWARD ENRIQUE,

You did not sign that union contract as head of Ford.

I did not sign that UAW contract as head of Chrysler.

Sam did not sight the same contract as head of G.M.

Not one of us, one time.

Charley Wilson, Sloan, Lee Iaccoco and various Fords signed those contracts.

The Bush/Cheney/Paulsen bail-out DID NOT require the companies or the unions or the bondholders to give up one dime.

That inexperienced Democrat you love to hate, held some feet to the fire and everyone involved was required to give up a lot before the federal bailout continued.

The Union gave up huge chunks of wages and benefits.

Company execs signed away bonuses and huge salaries, bond holders who bought auto maker bonds despite all three companies being in trouble gave up about 90%.

Some execs became unemployeed.

Stockholders accepted decidely junior positions until the new companies can rebuild.

Simple fact, President Obama KNEW that the country needs a domestic auto industry, with all the jobs within the auto makers and all the support and supply industries feeding parts into the assembly plants.

He KNEW without the auto industry jobs, there would be no recovery from the economic mess DubYah and the Draft Dodgers created.

As a nation, we did not need the fat cat, self serving corporate officers and directors. After all, it was their incompetence which left U.S. taxpayers owning most of G.M. and Fiat owning Chrysler.

Just as he and anyone else with half a brain KNOWS that no national economy can survive for any length of time with more than 15% of Total Gross National Production going into Health Care.

The U.S. reached 16% total health care cost in 2007 and 2008 with the brilliant programs of DubYah and Shotgun.

Continuing with the same approach as Health Care costs exceed 20% and head for 25% by 2015 is not an acceptable solution.

Not only would it not be a solution, it was the formula for total economic collapse with tens of millions starving.

Unlike the 1930s, there are virtually no family farms left where kinfolks can retreat to help grow vegetables and fruits, butcher hogs and calves and at least have plenty to eat.

Backassward Enrique,

I started out a Southern Republican when we were an endangered species. Then the Dixie-Crats were handed the GOP to practice their racism and corruption.

Strom Thurmond was producing mixed race children with a black mistress and preaching white supremacy 365 days annually for five decades.

As a boy, my father had me stuffing envelopes with GOP attacks on Social Security.

As a 40-something man, I observed my father pay a few quarters of minimum SSI payments so he and my mother could draw benefits for nearly 25 years.

Live and learn.

As a boy, I saw thousands of homeless migrant workers going up and down Rt. 66.

Entire families walking alongside mule and horse drawn wagons, some families with hand carts, even those with overloaded trucks walking alongside hoping the bald tires would hold up.

During WWII, I worked with the women, elderly men and every other kid in the area to keep the land producing for the war effort.

I watched those good conservative business men dodge the draft and slip around price control and rationing.

My KKK uncle dashed to a defense plant and paid $1,000 in cash for an "essential job" to keep him out of the draft. After the Nagasaki bomb, he ran to enlist to get the GI bill benefits, shipped out to Japan as a quartermaster non-com.

Got home 18 months later and paid cash for a nice, two-story house.

Live and learn.

Eugene Pulliam guaranteed Barry Goldwater Pulliam's newspapers would back Barry for the presidency all the way.

Then Danny Quayle's daddy [Pulliam's son-in-law] took the Indiana newspaper group and endorsed LBJ.

Live and learn.

Enrique, what is there about the Bush's running up more than 90% of the federal debt with non-stop wars and graft for their buddies that you don't understand?

Entitlement -- HELL -- Veterans benefits for all the disabled and dead from the final Viet Nam collapse, from Grenada, Panama, Somalia, Lebanon, Iraq One and Two --- are a huge entitlement, in addition to the TRILLIONS wasted on those wars and the TRILLIONS put into the banks, auto makers and AIG with the Bush/Paulsen bailouts, which started in September, running through December, 2008.

President Obama was stuck with cleaning up DubYah's mess, just as Clinton had to clean up Poppa Bush's mess and start paying off his debt.

Yet the Neo-Cons keep shoveling their low grade Male Bovine Excrement, pretending it is diamonds.

Actually if you look at your history piling debt on top of debt is something common to both liberals and conservatives, but you are correct in one sense. Oddly enough only liberals get blamed for the debt, even if the president is conservative people tend to blame liberals.